Debate Thread - Only Show Dogs allowed to breed

Question:
 REMINDER: Rules of debating apply to this thread. You need not agree with other posts but you must remain respectful of the poster.
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Many people involved in showing dogs have expressed the opinion that only show proven dogs should be considered worthy of reproduction.
My personal opinion is that Showing is a sport and should not be used as the only criteria for breeding worthiness. Showing is not a scientific process. It is a popularity contest, judges 'like" one dog better than another.
I think the costs of showing are passed on in the price of the pups so show people if left without any competition from non-shown pups would increase the costs of pups so they are out of reach for the working low income. Owning a dog should be something everyone can enjoy.
Health testing is also only a facet of breeding worthiness. A dog with great hips that dies at 6 from cancer would be considered breeding worthy and may have been used for several litters.
Dogs are more than what they look like. Intelligence, temperament, workability also need to be considered. I'd rather have a dog with a proven work record reproduce than one with ribbons on the wall.
Sbones 3 - culbrit left a charm with "HERS" on it.

Answer:
It is not supposed to be a popularity contest. Not saying that their aren't some biased judges, but a judge should not base the winner on liking the dog. They base their winner on how the dog fits to standard, temperament, and how they move. That's in an ideal world, of course.
I agree dogs should be more than just looks, but a lot more goes into a show champion than just looks.
I picked the first choice in the poll, though I think that a major pointed dog that meets the right criteria could be a good choice for breeding as well, as long as he's not lacking his championship due to a conformational or character flaw.
Breeding should be based on bettering the breed, protecting the breed, and with the goal of producing as close to the standard as possible. People tend to misconstrue the standard as a template based on looks only. But that's not correct. Standard addresses temperament, ability, etc as well, though it varies from breed to breed.
JMO's. :)

Answer:
 I agree DAX. Showing is not the only reason to breed. In many instances the show ring has ruined breeds. Which is why in Canada Border Collie breeders opted out of CKC registration and showing. They did not want to ruin the workability of the breed.
There are many reasons, that differer from breeder to breeder, to breed a dog. Some for sport(like flyball, agility, and so forth). These types of sports are becoming a lot more popular so people are breeding for it. Other reasons is work(Herding, hunting) this is the jobs many breeds were bred for. And many working line breeders will not show their dogs because they do not agree in where the show ring has taken their breeds. Another reason is services(Assistance Dogs, Police, Therapy). These dogs are being trained to do a specific job. Many of the dogs in Service dog training facilities that are used as the breeding stock are not shown. They are health tested and temperment tested. But are bred soully to produce service dogs. Which is my hope.
I am not saying in any way that showing is bad. It can be a good thing. But for me it is not the be all and end all of whether a dog should be bred. There are many other reasons why a dog should or could be bred.
Nicole & Sheena PSD OFA FD FDX

Answer:
 there r probably tons of dogs out there that r better than some of the sh ch but they just arnt shown y should they not be bred from?

Answer:
 I chose option C. I may not understand the options correctly but my decision for C is that in my opinion people may get a dog for the reason it was bred for in the first place such as ranchers owning a good herder to help manage their farms. Competition showing doesn't test the dog to prove their herding abilitys.
In my case I don't care for showing. I find that competitive showing is too much based on one persons opinion. I have attended many shows and have seen too many people, youngsters included, be belittled by judges and sent home believing they don't have a "good dog". I realize this is not always the case but I have seen it happen.
I enjoy competing in agility and soon hope to have Mara and I in training for tracking as well. I love to have fun with my dog and competitions I have been at encourage the handlers and dogs to have fun. This was even evident at the Canadian National Agility Trials I had the pleasure of attending last year.
Some people love Competition Showing, others don't.

Answer:
 This is the problem I have with breed standards. They are created and modified by clubs where the committees may be made up of dog breeders who could be protecting their own breeding stock's standard. They change over time not necesarily because the breed has been bettered.
I don't think anyone can truly judge a dog's temperment in a show ring. Show people work very hard to get the right behaviors, the right stance.
Showing is a sport that takes time & money so breeders that are not prepared to spend that instead on their families and dogs; might still have excellent dogs worthy of reproduction.

Answer:
 I think a dog should have to prove itself at something prior to being bred. Whether its a conformation championship, a hunting dog, or a dog who was bred for its ability, it should be required to prove itself to more than just its owner to be bred.
Anyone can say "Oh, my dog is nice, Im going to breed it" but I believe a dog should be evaluated by a judge, or by the breeders knowledgeable peers prior to breeding.
Some judges are biased, but its not a popularity contest as some would like to think, and a conformation dog is not a useless dog by any means.
Dax said, "My personal opinion is that Showing is a sport and should not be used as the only criteria for breeding worthiness. Showing is not a scientific process. It is a popularity contest, judges 'like" one dog better than another.
I think the costs of showing are passed on in the price of the pups so show people if left without any competition from non-shown pups would increase the costs of pups so they are out of reach for the working low income. Owning a dog should be something everyone can enjoy."
This isnt actually correct - the judge is comparing the dogs entered on THAT DAY to the ideal dog as described by the breed standard. They are to choose the dog who comes closest to ideal. The better the entry, ideally, the better the winners. Some times great dogs win, sometimes they dont.
A dog SHOULD be something everyone can enjoy - hence, rescue, and shelters. But, if you cannot afford a dog, because they really are NOT that costly - perhaps its best to remember that in my area, the price of a Boxer puppy at a PET STORE is more than I charge for pets...
This is true in MANY MANY areas. A poorly bred dog is often equal in cost to a well-bred one. Its just selecting the right breeder.
I personally would pay more for a dog who I knew WAS well-bred, but, honestly, most impulse pet store buyers pay the same, if not more than a pet pup from a show breeder.
Its a misconception that pets from show breeders cost more than poorly bred dogs. If it IS more, its usually only by $100-200 which IMO is well worth it.

Answer:
 Yes, but sport dogs and assistance dogs don't have to be bred for. They can be trained. Shelter dogs are very popular with assistance dog groups and sports trainers.
And it has always been my contention that a dog should not be bred for looks alone. A champion should be able to do work for AND still meet the standard. Dog shows do not ruin a breeds working ability, breeders who don't breed for it do.
Just my view. :cool:

Answer:
 Actually many service dog training facilites have their own breeding stock. Others go to shelters and pounds but the ones rescued from shelters and pounds have a higher failure rate then teh ones that were specifically bred for work. And saying that training is what makes a service dog is wrong. Temperment, intelligence, and body structure do. I am on MANY service dog training groups and the failure rate among rescue dogs compared to working dogs specifically bred is a lot higher.
Assistance dogs for disabled people to me(and of course I am bias) is one of the most important aspects to breed for. My trainer breeds Irish Setters specifically to be used as Service dogs and she has had great success. Just like any job (herding, police, hunting) breeding just for service work is very important.
Nicole & Sheena PSD OFA FD FDX