Scary night in Obed Class LONG POSTQuestion:I posted a thread about trainers and asked what would they do if they had an aggressive dog in their class. Little did I know that part of that thread would come back to bite me in the behind. Tonight was Uma's and my first nght of beginners obed training with a class. We had already completed two full sets (16 weeks) of private lessons. Even though the tranier thought that she should go into the intermediate level, that level would not start until mid November. We did not want Uma to regress so we put her in beginners Obed with other dogs. Well it hit the fan. I walked into the ring with Uma in tow and sat down next to a couple who had a beautiful bull terrier. Their dog is about a year old and is BUILT like a brick house. The dog LUNGED and Uma and started barking and growling. Both owners of the dog were there with the woman holding the leash on the bull terrier. I pulled Uma back and the woman apologized to me saying that her dog was fine but was unsocialized and just wanted to play. I told her the same, that Uma and I were just here for socialization and distractions. Within two minutes tops the bull terrier bolted and lunged at Uma again (This dog was NOT playing!) Uma then lunged and pulled me right out of my seat. The trainer was right on this terrier and handed the owners a spray bottle. Let's face it, this terrier has agression problems. Uma and I moved two seats down so if the terrier lunged again I would at least be able to try and pull Uma back. I have been upset and racking my brains half the night thinking what did I do wrong? The dog came after MY dog. I don't know if my dog is just supposed to sit there and take it, or was she right to lunge at the terrier once the terrier started lunging at her. Part of me thinks Uma was right for trying to protect herself and the other part of me is saying what did I do wrong as a handler. My dog was not being the aggressor but is it right to let her stick up for herself? I sat there and shook for a little while thinking I had failed my dog....but did I? What would you have done if you were in a class and a dog came up and tried to physically attack your dog? Answer: Wow- .. Uma could have lunged back to protect you as well as her. ( sorry for not talking like a pirate on pirate day..) Is the trainer going to require a racing muzzle on the dog? I would. Did the dog ever settle down? Or keep this up the whole class? /edit- she also could have lunged back to discipline the other dog for acting aggressive../ Answer: I am not a real fan of disciplining the dogs that way - what my mentor does in a situation like that is moves the offending dog as far away as it takes for him to stop being focused/distracted by the other dogs and then reward him everytime he is focused on his owner and being good. Ruby is barkey at other dogs - and I have done basically the same thing with her...we can get alot closer to dogs now with her ignoring them. the problems with corrections like the spray bottle or other corrections is that they have to be timed EXACTLY...if not you do the negative reinforcement or correction right *after* the behavior rather than during the behavior and the dog starts to believe he is getting that because of the other dogs and that it is their fault that he is getting corrected, and it just perpetuates the aggression. I know barking isnt the same - but my mentor has had dogs that have been through three sessions for barking issues...sometimes it just takes a while. ~Cate Answer: I agree with Ceph, the dog should be taken far enough away that he's not distracted by the other dogs or tempted to do so. If there's not enough room, then the training area is too small. I also think that the spray bottle is just a bad, bad, bad way of dealing with this situation. Why are dogs aggressive? Because they think something bad is going to happen if they don't take care of the situation. So the trainer is going to prove the dog right that something bad is going to happen, they're going to get blasted in the face with water. That just reinforces the aggression. Not a good idea. No aversive techniques should be used to try to correct aggression. If I were a student in a situation like that this is what I would do. First I would try to move away from the other dog after the first lunge. Almost always the first is not going to be the last. If I could not do that, then I would make sure that I was between my dog and the other dog. If the other dog lunged, I would react to the other dog, I would tell it 'no, back off' etc I don't care what the other owner or trainer is doing. Even if this does nothing to the other dog, it shows MY dog that I'm the leader and I handle scary situations. They should look for me to protect them, then if a scary situation comes up their first instinct should me to look to me for protection and not try to do the protecting. Answer: I just keep replaying this and replaying this in my mind and I believe Uma did nothing wrong. I did move down toward the corner of the class and sat by of all things a JRT and Beagle mix. Uma gave that dog a sniff up the butt and it was done and over with. There were other dogs in the class, one even the size of Uma and there was no agression on Umas part at all. I sent an email off to one of the breeders of mastiffs that I have been talking to for quite a few months. I received an email back and now I totally feel like poop because she told me I should learn how to read other peoples dogs. How could I have read the other persons dog? We walked by and sat down. This bull terrior bolted with teeth showing, barking and growling and was going for my dog. I was able to correct Uma the first time but by the second time the dog was almost at Uma's throat. That is when Uma started lunging and rearing. I feel like a dam failure where I let my dog down and I let myself down as a owner for not reating quickly enough.....but what could have been done differently in my case? Believe me, I am willing to listne to everyone in here about this. I do NOT have an agressive dog but put in a situation, my dog came out ready to fight and or protect. Seriously, I am just sick about this. Answer: I completley agree with Heart Song - also - you need to make sure you stay relaxed and try not to get to upset - Uma can probably feel that you are upset and that is in all liklihood fueling her reaction...she feels she needs to protect you from a bad situation. I still think your trainer is not handling this in the correct manner though...make sure you are careful with what corrections you give. Answer: I just have to say one thing: A normally,adjusted dog will react if a dog is trying to go after him.My golden would have reacted the same way,by growling back.Uma did not do anything wrong and you were right to move away.I don't allow my dogs to growl and will correct my dog,by putting him, in a sit position and moving him away from the situation.Water spray does not work in an aggressive situation,it can actually worsen it!. Next lesson,try not to get too tense or she will feel it and play on it.Put yrself far away fom the aggressive do an try to keep Uma's eye contact,on you. Answer: hi fairlight i am sorry this is happening to you. personally i think you are doing great dont get discouraged. keep that chin up. for one i think the woman who owns that terrier has kibble rolling around her head. ofcourse her dog means every bit of what he is doing. she is not taking her dogs tendencies very serious which is a serious problem. i am going to agree with that breeder yes you ought to learn as much about dog posture as you can that being said that takes work, time and patience you will make mistakes thats part of the learning curve but at least you take it seriously. the reason i say this is because your dog is so big those little posture markers can warn you before a dog lunges charges or whatever. a mastiff is a very big powerful dog if it has comitted to a lunge if you are not prepared you could be going for a ride or drag and you can not control when you are getting yanked around. making a correction before all that happens could save you and your dog from a bad situation. the fact the other owner is completly oblivious of this just completly blows my mind. if she keeps that up her dog will kill other dogs period. i also think using a squirt bottle on a terrier for negitive reenforcment is well very silly. for all the same reasons mentioned above. personally i think the women with the terrier needs a few private lessons she has a loaded shot gun in her hands and thinks its playtime. there are probley trainers here who could give you better advice of what the could be done to work with the terrier i think though the trainer need to take it a bit more serious too. i think uma did a great job at defending herself if she just stood there that terrier would have her pinned on the floor and you would have wished somone had a break stick. because you have such a big dog its good to scan the area look at the dogs you are dealing with and prepare for war if you see something you dont like. i will need to do this as well when i get my dog. one thing about mastiffs they learn and they learn it fast not obdence stuff .but things like o dogs are bad i must react ect. its your job to keep him out of those situations and use you as a cue that takes time and working together. i think you are doing great. respectfully Ashley Answer: I don't think Uma did anything wrong. For the trainer to scold you, I think that is wrong! I know many times when I'm walking, sure I'm always looking around but my main focus is on my dogs. I can't be paying attention to somebody else's dog to watch what it's slightest posture change and watch mine. Besides, if this dog is anything like Loki, barking/growling can come without warning... one minute he'll be all happy, next minute something he sees will upset him and he'll bark at it with no warning. I also do not care how the trainer is handling this. If it were me, I would have actually taken offense to the trainer telling me to learn how to watch other dogs when my dog did nothing wrong. How did the dog react through the rest of class? Is this dog going to be a problem? Also, the owner of the dog is not taking this seriously, what if instead of Uma, that had been a kid? Uma at least can handle herself. |
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